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by joe Molnar: Topic To Tan or not to
Tan on the Dummy 3 responses |
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Almost every set ends
with a Tan/garn followed by a
Huen and Tan. But is this second
Tan Sao really a Tan Sao?
I find that the arm is extended from the Garn
position and that Larn Sao
feels more appropriate as it is a folding movement and not extending.
What do you think?
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Response
from Third eye:
Hi and congratulations on a very good site.
Your style of Wing Chun seems different to what I train, your hand
position when Tan Sao is used looks to be at about 45 degrees, in
my class this would not be considered a Tan Sao, once the hand has
moved from the palm up position the energy will have changed, this
would be considered as destroying your structure and one of the
basic rules of Wing Chun is to keep your structure true (as the
late Bruce Lee once said a Tan is neither straight nor is it bent).
If you try defending with the two versions of Tan I think you will
find that your version will feel more pressure on your arm, similar
to a karate block.
When performing a Tan Sao the wrist must be limp in the same way
you would perform a Fok Sao, change these basic principles and you
change the forward energies in these techniques.
I am not saying that my Wing Chun is better than yours, I am just
trying to open up a debate and see where it takes us.
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Reply:
Ouch! comparing my Tan with Karate eh?
From the description of your Tan it could only be applied to very
low punches.
If a high round or straight punch were thrown how could you keep
your Tan Sao flat??
Is Tan Sao used on the dummy? If so is it used on the upper arm
or just the lower one?
If you apply it to the upper arms then what position does the Tan
take?
Is it still flat? or do you have that 45 degree bend?
Don't look at the end position as much as how it got there. The
Tan slides out and over the attack,
not crashing into the attack as a karate block. Although I have
seen Randy Williams use a flipping Tan that certainly is more aggressive
but still works.
As for the wrist being limp, I find that my initial contact is the
back of my palm, I then continue sliding over the attack. If my
wrist were limp that could cause problems with my deflection. If
you can could you send me a couple of images or sketch's of the
starting and finished position of your Tan against a high punch
and I will animate it so we can look at it a little closer.
I'm very interested to hear your reply and thank you for your comments.
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Response
from Steve.
Firstly i'd like to say there are other types of tan sau that u didn't
mention and they are yeilding tan and pivioting tan. In response to
what was written on the message board by thirdeye i agree with what
he says about tan sau position but only during during the first form.
that part of the form is one of the most important part of the whole
wing chun system. that part of the form is a chi building and mental
awakening part of the form that is why the hand is flat in the form
but not in application. i also agree that the wrist must stay limp
because all movements should be coming from your danteen (lower navel)if
your wrist is tense then u are moving your tan sau with your wrist
or hand which is very weak movement.
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Reply:
Thanks Steve, you are right about other types of Tan Sao, In the
Tan Sao lesson I do describe the yielding or Yin tan Sao and
the pivoting Tan Sao differs from the sliding via footwork I imagine.
Why could not the Tan Sao be used as it would in application in
the first form? would it be wrong?
I agree about tension also, what I try to do is focus my energy
forward so that the energy travels through my arm and out towards
my opponent. In this way the energy is not tense as its focus does
not stop at the wrist and only has a forward direction. Tension
comes from using antagonist muscles, muscles that control the movement
in the opposite direction.
If the wrist is limp doesn't the energy stop there?
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Response
from Clive.
The structure of the tan sau will vary somewhat from student to student.
This does not make a different tan sau wrong. Even if you have the
same Sifu, your wing chun will vary from another fellow student. This
is simply because every practitioner's wing chun is slightly different.
We all naturally develope our own way of using wing
chun due to what we feel comfortable with and what works for us. If
it works, it WORKS! Thats the important thing!
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Reply:
Great point. |
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